Hi,I want to propose splitting the league into two divisions, higher and lower. There is clear divide in attitudes between top teams that are often extremely competitive (nothing wrong with that!)and lower teams that are basically out for a laugh and a few beers (nothing wrong with that either!).Teams knocked out of the first round of the playoffs in the upper league would then have to play to avoid demotion (a sort of anti-championship) and the top (2 or 3?) teams from the lower league would win promotion. This would add to the total number of games and to the drama. The playoffs in the English football league are now some of the best matches of the season.Anyway I am interested in hearing why people object to this idea because I heard before it was voted down heavily but it seems to me like an idea that would benefit everyone and help retain the lower teams thus increasing our overall revenue.Please let us know if and why you do/don't like this proposalCheersChazza

For what it's worth, I used to be in favour of splitting the league into two skill-based divisions with exactly the kind of relegation/promotion system you are proposing.
To my knowledge, proposals to split the league (in a variety of inventive ways) have been voted on a number of times. And as you say, such proposals have generally been overwhelmingly crushed.

A couple of years back, I voted in favour of one such proposal in lieu of my captain. On that occasion, the vote was tied and the president at that time decided he had a deciding vote—despite there being nothing in the league rules about it and no precedent! I digress... Anyway, he voted it down and that was the last time I remember the issue coming before the captains.
I now think splitting the league is not such a great idea. Players change teams. Teams change bars. Bars close down. Others are sold. Actually deciding which teams are in the two divisions would be a divisive enterprise. One I wouldn't wish to undertake. (Not that I'll need to after this season!)
Also, many players in the weaker teams tell me they enjoy playing the stronger teams. They enjoy the challenge.

That said, there's nothing wrong with bringing the proposal before the captains again. My feeling is that it would have to be voted on during a mid-season captains' meeting rather than a pre-season organizational one, as the latter option would likely leave too little time for a new league system to be structured properly and implemented.
Anyway, that my tuppence worth. Here's hoping others chime in and we get a good debate going...
John

Hey John,
thanks for the reply. I still hope that some people who oppose the idea will come on and give their reasons so we could work through the pros and cons outside a captains' meeting.
I want to answer a couple of the points you made and make specific proposals;

• The division position would belong to the 'core' of players not the bar. Therefore this seasons' Sin Bin Diabolicals would keep the place of last seasons Loft Sticks. we could use the established precedent of 4 players. If a team splits 4 and 4 they can play each other for the place.

• The rules regarding who goes up and down can be decided before. I have an idea where a team in the higher division that loses in the first round of the playoffs would then have to go into an 'anti-championship' where they are playing to stay in the upper division. That happens to great teams every season - they would go into a playoff that they may expect to win but it would sure be exciting. If you lose, so what? you have a season getting drunk and winning matches and fighting to regain your place.

• i want to tackle this idea that lower teams enjoy playing the top 5, or that they are in the league to do that. Total nonsense in my opinion. I know many of them are great lads and good sports, but trust me, they mostly prefer it when they win matches. this proposal hasn't got through before because they also tend to be the teams that don't attend the captains meeting or post here. If those teams are happier they are more likely to stay and our revenues go up.

• One final idea; we needn't split the league 16/16, if we had 32 teams again we could split it 21 in the upper division and 11 in the lower. The uppers would then play everyone in their division, making the league slightly fairer and the lower division could have a home and away with everyone.

Just sayin is all
chazza

Sorry this is long but I have long been a (vocal) supporter of skill-based divisions and here’s my take.
If looking at the results this season, and I would imagine the last couple, a split into skill-based divisions seems a sensible proposal. While it has been debated several times, there does seem to be a fear of a change in structure. However, I don’t think the change would be that severe and would benefit the league overall.

While by no means perfect the dart league has a skill-based setup that generally works and on the whole people are in the right division and prefer playing opponents within a certain skill range, maintain the chance of a win on a regular basis.

It would make the top division more competitive, and allow those who want a more serious level of competition the chance to play that way. Meanwhile, players in lower-placed teams would not be discouraged by often being on the receiving end of big losses. This could also encourage new players to join the league as the skill gap would be less between them and the teams they would generally play.

As the league stands right now, about two-thirds through the season, if it was split into two skill-based divisions today it would work out fairly well, considering where teams are placed. Also, (I may be wrong and apologise to the team if I am) I think only two teams in the lower 14 have beaten teams in the upper half so far this season, further indicating that skill-based divisions would be fair.
Splitting teams into two divisions would not have to be as difficult as has been previously suggested. While teams do change bars for whatever reason, the nucleus of most of them remain the same. Therefore the previous season’s standing in the Team List would provide the basis for the two divisions.

If two teams were level on points, either there win-loss ratio for the previous season or average team ranking could determine which division they enter. In the case of a new team, again average team ranking could be used to determine where they play. In both cases players would have to be migrated before the divisions are drawn and this would indicate the team’s general strength. An entirely new team would have an average rank of 1600, putting them in the lower bracket.
Even with a skill-based split, it is unlikely that a straight home-and-away format with each team in a division playing each other twice would be feasible. Again thinking back to the past couple of seasons, it is likely there would be around 14 teams in each division. That would allow one game against each team in the same skill-based division and the rest randomly made up (schedule creation allowing) with teams from the opposing division. This would give some opportunities for sides in the lower half to take on top-ranked sides, while mostly playing teams of a similar level.

The trickiest part in my mind is the promotion/relegation numbers. I would propose the bottom three from the top division go down and the winner of the Best of the Rest and the next two top teams in the standing go up. There could be a proviso that if one of the bottom three teams in the top division wins the playoffs then they are safe and the next lowest-ranked team drops down but that’s into fine tuning the idea if it reaches that stage.

Most important is to have fun and enjoy playing pool but having played on teams of different levels, it is nice to win once in a while, or at least have a chance.

Alan

I don't have the time to answer each point now (though I'll try to do so at a later date), but...
...two things I didn't mention in my original reply:
First, creating higher and lower divisions does not stop the worst teams from losing every week. Teams at the bottom of the pile are still going to lose almost every week.
Second, splitting the league into an upper and lower division actually creates more teams that will lose almost every week, as now the teams at the bottom of both divisions will be facing stronger teams every week.