Proposal to raise the qualifying limit from 5 appearances.Out of the 4 teams in the semis this season 2 had players that had only played on 5 regular occasions during the regular season. They broke no rules but I wonder if that is really in the spirit of our league.Johnny Cisneros played on 5 occasions for the Rising Stars, and this was his first season with them. He played on three occasions before the mid season singles, and another two occasions before the playoffs/end of season tourney. He played in both tournaments.Matt West also played on 5 occasions although he has played for Rackem and Crackem in previous seasons.I'm naming the names because this isn't personal and I like both these guys anyway, and their teams and team captains are my mates.But I think this is just not right, the playoffs should be a mini tournament between the teams that have played together all season. And the tournaments should be the same.PROPOSITION 1. Players must have played on at least 10 occasions to qualify for the playoffs and end-of-season money tourneys.****maybe the lower bracket can remain unchanged as I know some of the newer/less serious teams sometimes struggle to get 6

I'm more concerned about qualifying for the banquet and quite frankly Matt has been on our team through many seasons, I don't agree with your portrayal of him or Johnny as anything but sportsmanlike. Both players in my humble opinion are excellent examples of players we should all try to play like on and off the table.

Please define for us the spirit of the league?

Furthermore, 10 matches would be hard to field for some teams and I believe that we would see many more forfeits in the playoffs than we already get... Your team for example wouldn't be able to field Will @ five games or Stu @ seven games...
I don't think this is a good Idea.

I agree that 10 is too many. Charlie your own player Will 'The Skill' only played five matches. I see no problems with the way things are now. People often are busy with life events / conflicting schedules etc. Johnny was busy planning his move back to the states, and the end to his military service. He is no longer in Korea now. He also lived in Uijeongbu which is a long commute to come out on Wednesdays, but he did for the love of the game and the desire to compete. You may note that he played many more weeks the previous season for Boomtown. I certainly would have liked him to come out more, but he did when he could. I'm sure Will also had good reasons for only being able to come out and play 5 weeks. Whether someone has played for three seasons or for one, it doesn't make a difference in my opinion as they are no less important members of the team and friends.

Guys I don't want to get into a spat. I like you both but we fundamentally disagree here. I didn't call Matt or Johnny unsporting Mark, so you misread that I think. Both Johnny and Matt are fine upstanding fellows.
This is an issue here for captains and the executive, every team has the right to play to the rules; as we all did. And every member of this league has the right to question rules they don't agree with. I don't agree with this rule, and I haven't agreed with it for years. I am not alone in this feeling believe me but perhaps as the winning captain I am at least shielded from accusations of being a sore-loser, so I'm taking my chance to speak out for what I believe would be for the overall good of the league. And actually I'm also talking about an even wider issue of what makes up a team.
It is against the spirit to bring in players purely because they are quality, it's as simple as that, there should be some other kind of connection. Teams should be made up of people who actually get on with each other, and know each other, and preferably who hang out together outside of Wednesdays. That is part of what I think is the spirit of the league; teams of buddies dukin' it out at the playoffs. Most teams are like that. Rackem n' Crackem are usually very strong in this regard Mark, I think you guys are a great example of what a team should be actually, and I see you guys hanging out together all the time.
Paul, your team won three straight championships and 57 straight matches before you lost, you had 6 of the top 11 players, the team we played had 5 of the top 50 players ever to have played in the league. You haven't lost a regular league game since 2013. The game against us was the first time you've been to doubles in a playoff in two years. You won the final last season 8-0. Week in, week out you win by 12,13, 14 points. This league is massively stacked in your favour in a way that couldn't happen in professional sports. If this was European soccer your would face financial sanctions (Financial Fair Play). In the US teams would have would have the draft system and the market would step in, but ironically as an amateur league there's nothing to stop it. If it would be stopped in professional leagues surely it's against the spirit of an bar-room n booze based amateur league? Am I wrong? And then on top of this massively, awesomely talented group of players you then bring in Johnny for the playoffs? Like, come on man! That was a step too far for me buddy and I'm asking you to consider whether that's fair and appropriate for our amateur league.
Alright, I agree it's too problematic to raise the number of games played to 10 especially as many people have good reasons why they can't come regularly. And it's difficult in general to legislate when we are, as Paul correctly points out, a group of people with often busy and hectic lives outside the league. Therefore I'm changing my proposition.
PROPOSITION;
A set of values defining the 'spirit' of our league to be agreed upon by the captains. Whilst not attempting to define individual laws, the statement should instead state why the league exists, and what its goals, ideals, and expectations are. Should a team be seen to be outside of these ideals, this could be drawn to the attention of the executive who could take whatever action they deemed appropriate.
Sorry if feelings are hurt, I'll buy you both a beer (cass) when i see you, but this is an important issue to me, I don't want to see our league become a soul-less, and ultra-competitive place and I want teams made up of buddies to have a chance to win the thing from time to time. The primary function of this league is to give us something to talk about while we get drunk isn't it? Hey, maybe that should be the first sentence in the Values!

Charlie,First of all you are misinformed.While I have absolutely no need to defend who I recruit onto my team (or in many cases who volunteers), since you apparently have the wrong idea, I'll explain a bit. Johnny and I are good friends and we both played and hung out a lot outside of Itaewon ever since I started getting to know him three seasons ago. He's not much of a drinker, but we shared a passion for pool and met on many occasions on Fridays to practice together in Nowon, as well as on base for special events like tournaments and concerts. To accuse me of bringing him to the team just because of playoffs.. is insulting and I take it as a personal attack on my character. I was champion man, did I really need another strong player just because he was good? Is it so perverse to consider the possibility that I also might have really gotten along well with the guy? You're right we had a great record. You broke it splendidly. Really, what do you have to complain about? Why are you so quick to pass judgement? Are you an expert on my team relationships and dynamics? Who are you to judge whether or not we have a 'team that is in keeping with the spirit of the league?' Charlie frankly it's really hard to politely respond when you continue to make personal attacks, and call people out like this publicly. In the semi-final match you insinuated that my members were being unsportsmanlike for talking amongst themselves during the match, which you found distracting. I was completely offended that you would ever accuse my team of being unsportsmanlike or would think they'd ever do something to shark another player. They would never EVER so do something like that. Ask any other team in the league if we have ever shown anything but the best sportsmanship. I will not apologize for having a strong team. We aspire to excellence. We want to be the best, don't you? We have a great group of friends that enjoy playing together and often hang out outside of pool league. We all share a passion for pool. Again, I wish you would consider the possibility that you don't know all the facts before attacking my character and my team, especially in this public space. Perhaps a private message would have been more suitable? Again, I see no reason why we are even having this discussion. Your team beat ours. You're champs! I have never wished you or your team anything but my sincere congratulations. In fact I'm grateful to you guys because you've re-ignited my team's hunger. We definitely look forward to the upcoming season and a chance for our rematch. Wish everyone a great season!

[Charlie Brennan 2015-07-09, 21:15:35]:
Guys I don't want to get into a spat. I like you both but we fundamentally disagree here. I didn't call Matt or Johnny unsporting Mark, so you misread that I think. Both Johnny and Matt are fine upstanding fellows.
This is an issue here for captains and the executive, every team has the right to play to the rules; as we all did. And every member of this league has the right to question rules they don't agree with. I don't agree with this rule, and I haven't agreed with it for years. I am not alone in this feeling believe me but perhaps as the winning captain I am at least shielded from accusations of being a sore-loser, so I'm taking my chance to speak out for what I believe would be for the overall good of the league. And actually I'm also talking about an even wider issue of what makes up a team.
It is against the spirit to bring in players purely because they are quality, it's as simple as that, there should be some other kind of connection. Teams should be made up of people who actually get on with each other, and know each other, and preferably who hang out together outside of Wednesdays. That is part of what I think is the spirit of the league; teams of buddies dukin' it out at the playoffs. Most teams are like that. Rackem n' Crackem are usually very strong in this regard Mark, I think you guys are a great example of what a team should be actually, and I see you guys hanging out together all the time.
Paul, your team won three straight championships and 57 straight matches before you lost, you had 6 of the top 11 players, the team we played had 5 of the top 50 players ever to have played in the league. You haven't lost a regular league game since 2013. The game against us was the first time you've been to doubles in a playoff in two years. You won the final last season 8-0. Week in, week out you win by 12,13, 14 points. This league is massively stacked in your favour in a way that couldn't happen in professional sports. If this was European soccer your would face financial sanctions (Financial Fair Play). In the US teams would have would have the draft system and the market would step in, but ironically as an amateur league there's nothing to stop it. If it would be stopped in professional leagues surely it's against the spirit of an bar-room n booze based amateur league? Am I wrong? And then on top of this massively, awesomely talented group of players you then bring in Johnny for the playoffs? Like, come on man! That was a step too far for me buddy and I'm asking you to consider whether that's fair and appropriate for our amateur league.
Alright, I agree it's too problematic to raise the number of games played to 10 especially as many people have good reasons why they can't come regularly. And it's difficult in general to legislate when we are, as Paul correctly points out, a group of people with often busy and hectic lives outside the league. Therefore I'm changing my proposition.
PROPOSITION;
A set of values defining the 'spirit' of our league to be agreed upon by the captains. Whilst not attempting to define individual laws, the statement should instead state why the league exists, and what its goals, ideals, and expectations are. Should a team be seen to be outside of these ideals, this could be drawn to the attention of the executive who could take whatever action they deemed appropriate.
Sorry if feelings are hurt, I'll buy you both a beer (cass) when i see you, but this is an important issue to me, I don't want to see our league become a soul-less, and ultra-competitive place and I want teams made up of buddies to have a chance to win the thing from time to time. The primary function of this league is to give us something to talk about while we get drunk isn't it? Hey, maybe that should be the first sentence in the Values!

Charlie,


Well I’m
relieved to hear that I’m in error, but I was certainly irritated with your initial
post and felt the need to stand up for both of them.


First


I have
observed this league and have always had the opinion that there are two driving
influences. One is that the league is a
place where friends can get together toss back a few and enjoy a team
game. Against another group of friends
and in the process we all make new acquaintances. This is great I love it.


But
there is another current in our league, which I think has its rightful place, it’s
born from the stats that we keep and also especially seen in the playoffs. I love this too… I would say that it’s about
the love of the competition and respect for my opponents. (This is part of
sportsmanship.) I know that I see it in
you and your team. Yes you’re all
friends, and perhaps that’s what makes the victories sweeter. But please don’t try to tell me you are not
competitive. I know you are and I think it’s
great!


Secondly,


I have
known all of Paul’s team and believe they share that same comradery you and
your mates do, they enjoy the competition and honestly the league owes them a
debt of gratitude for offering something all of us can aspire to and finally
one of us beat these tough players, that’s awesome. Greatness is something we should strive for
not tear down.


I was
so happy for you when you finally beat them, not because I wished ill on Paul or
his team but that someone (you) had the resolve and guts to play your best, and
beat them and then go on to win the championship. I think you tarnish that by attacking your
competition and saying they were too tough for this league. You proved that
wrong! I really don’t understand the sentiment
there. Yes season after season they
rarely loose games, but don’t you feel that you’ve accomplished an amazing
feat?


Third


The
league in my opinion is here to foster better relations between Foreigners and
Koreans through friendly and healthy competition and sportsmanship. (and
provide a source of revenue for bars on a slow nights) I do agree the league
should be about the Journey not the destination. But one thing is certain, the league has a
decision it needs to come to grips with.
Are we a competitive league or are we a friendship league, I don’t
believe the two aremutually exclusive.



There
are a lot of both, and we should celebrate all of it. Perhaps instead looking at talent leveling
strategies (handicaps) might be a better option than attacking someone for having
too good of a team, that you beat.


Cheers.