Some rules I think need some clarification/altering
11 Jahre 10 Monate her - 11 Jahre 10 Monate her #428
von Matt West
Some rules I think need some clarification/altering wurde erstellt von Matt West
Hi readers, I have a couple of things in mind.
1)Jigger left on the tableThe current rule is that if you release the jigger on the table with your hand it is a foul. I don't agree with this rule, I have noticed in a lot of professional pool it isn't a foul (Mosconi cup for example). I believe that the idea behind the rule is that it could be used as an aiming device, I don't think that's a realistic problem and it can create strife between teams when the rule is (pedantically) called.
2)Rerack: I couldn't find this in the rules. A player in the league has explained to me that you aren't officially allowed to request a rerack after the coin toss has been won. If this is so, that seems very silly to me since it is after the coin toss that you are most likely to check the rack for looseness.
3)Late player clarification. 'If a player is not readily available (i.e. not in the immediate area)
after the completion of all other games in the current set, his/her game
will be considered a forfeit after 5 minutes'.This rule means that if the set has not been completed, a game may be skipped over until it is the last game of the set. Only then could the 5 minutes begin. It is also not clear when the 5 minutes begins; is it at the end of the previous game or after the balls are racked or after the coin toss?
4)Frozen ball rule: the rules are a little ambiguous to me. Here's my understanding. If an object ball is frozen to a rail, you can play the cue ball off that object ball into the same rail, but that does not count as a legal rail contact, another ball must contact a rail after that, whether that is the cue ball or any other ball. This is what makes calling a frozen ball so vital, it can make an easy 'tap' safety shot into a much more difficult one.
Some things to maybe beat out in the next meeting
1)Jigger left on the tableThe current rule is that if you release the jigger on the table with your hand it is a foul. I don't agree with this rule, I have noticed in a lot of professional pool it isn't a foul (Mosconi cup for example). I believe that the idea behind the rule is that it could be used as an aiming device, I don't think that's a realistic problem and it can create strife between teams when the rule is (pedantically) called.
2)Rerack: I couldn't find this in the rules. A player in the league has explained to me that you aren't officially allowed to request a rerack after the coin toss has been won. If this is so, that seems very silly to me since it is after the coin toss that you are most likely to check the rack for looseness.
3)Late player clarification. 'If a player is not readily available (i.e. not in the immediate area)
after the completion of all other games in the current set, his/her game
will be considered a forfeit after 5 minutes'.This rule means that if the set has not been completed, a game may be skipped over until it is the last game of the set. Only then could the 5 minutes begin. It is also not clear when the 5 minutes begins; is it at the end of the previous game or after the balls are racked or after the coin toss?
4)Frozen ball rule: the rules are a little ambiguous to me. Here's my understanding. If an object ball is frozen to a rail, you can play the cue ball off that object ball into the same rail, but that does not count as a legal rail contact, another ball must contact a rail after that, whether that is the cue ball or any other ball. This is what makes calling a frozen ball so vital, it can make an easy 'tap' safety shot into a much more difficult one.
Some things to maybe beat out in the next meeting
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11 Jahre 10 Monate her - 11 Jahre 10 Monate her #429
von Bernard Condrau
Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from making bad decisions. [Samuel Langhorne Clemens]
1)Jigger left on the table
The current rule is that if you release the jigger on the table with your hand it is a foul. I don't agree with this rule, I have noticed in a lot of professional pool it isn't a foul (Mosconi cup for example). I believe that the idea behind the rule is that it could be used as an aiming device, I don't think that's a realistic problem and it can create strife between teams when the rule is (pedantically) called.
Rule 4.12, Cue stick on the table: If the shooter uses his cue stick in order to align a shot by placing it on the table without having a hand on the stick, it is a foul.There is nothing in the rules which would indicate that leaving the jigger (or cross, bridge) on the table would be ruled as a foul. It is a foul only, if a) the cue stick is left on the table without touching it, and b) it is used on purpose as a help to aim the shot.
2)Rerack: I couldn't find this in the rules. A player in the league has explained to me that you aren't officially allowed to request a rerack after the coin toss has been won. If this is so, that seems very silly to me since it is after the coin toss that you are most likely to check the rack for looseness.
Rule 1.1.15, Clarification remark: The coin toss is done after racking the balls.
There is no specific remark in the rules that the rack may not be corrected upon request of the breaker. In almost every match, at least once the referee is asked to correct his/her rack. It would probably be a good idea to make a respective comment in the rules, since the coin toss section will be redefined for the coming season anyway.
3)Late player clarification.
'If a player is not readily available (i.e. not in the immediate area)
after the completion of all other games in the current set, his/her game
will be considered a forfeit after 5 minutes'.
This rule means that if the set has not been completed, a game may be skipped over until it is the last game of the set. Only then could the 5 minutes begin. It is also not clear when the 5 minutes begins; is it at the end of the previous game or after the balls are racked or after the coin toss?
You quoted rule 1.1.14, and yes, it means that a game is forfeited only after all other games in the set have been played. The text in the rules particularly says "...after the completion of all other games...be considered a forfeit after 5 minutes". This means, 5 minutes after the previous game completed, not after racking or toss.
4)Frozen ball rule: the rules are a little ambiguous to me. Here's my understanding. If an object ball is frozen to a rail, you can play the cue ball off that object ball into the same rail, but that does not count as a legal rail contact, another ball must contact a rail after that, whether that is the cue ball or any other ball. This is what makes calling a frozen ball so vital, it can make an easy 'tap' safety shot into a much more difficult one.
If an object ball is frozen to the rail, then playing the cue ball into the frozen object ball is a legal shot, if a) the object ball is a legal target, b) the cue ball touches the rail (any rail) after contacting the frozen object ball. See rules 4.3, 4.7 and 6.4.
The current rule is that if you release the jigger on the table with your hand it is a foul. I don't agree with this rule, I have noticed in a lot of professional pool it isn't a foul (Mosconi cup for example). I believe that the idea behind the rule is that it could be used as an aiming device, I don't think that's a realistic problem and it can create strife between teams when the rule is (pedantically) called.
Rule 4.12, Cue stick on the table: If the shooter uses his cue stick in order to align a shot by placing it on the table without having a hand on the stick, it is a foul.There is nothing in the rules which would indicate that leaving the jigger (or cross, bridge) on the table would be ruled as a foul. It is a foul only, if a) the cue stick is left on the table without touching it, and b) it is used on purpose as a help to aim the shot.
2)Rerack: I couldn't find this in the rules. A player in the league has explained to me that you aren't officially allowed to request a rerack after the coin toss has been won. If this is so, that seems very silly to me since it is after the coin toss that you are most likely to check the rack for looseness.
Rule 1.1.15, Clarification remark: The coin toss is done after racking the balls.
There is no specific remark in the rules that the rack may not be corrected upon request of the breaker. In almost every match, at least once the referee is asked to correct his/her rack. It would probably be a good idea to make a respective comment in the rules, since the coin toss section will be redefined for the coming season anyway.
3)Late player clarification.
'If a player is not readily available (i.e. not in the immediate area)
after the completion of all other games in the current set, his/her game
will be considered a forfeit after 5 minutes'.
This rule means that if the set has not been completed, a game may be skipped over until it is the last game of the set. Only then could the 5 minutes begin. It is also not clear when the 5 minutes begins; is it at the end of the previous game or after the balls are racked or after the coin toss?
You quoted rule 1.1.14, and yes, it means that a game is forfeited only after all other games in the set have been played. The text in the rules particularly says "...after the completion of all other games...be considered a forfeit after 5 minutes". This means, 5 minutes after the previous game completed, not after racking or toss.
4)Frozen ball rule: the rules are a little ambiguous to me. Here's my understanding. If an object ball is frozen to a rail, you can play the cue ball off that object ball into the same rail, but that does not count as a legal rail contact, another ball must contact a rail after that, whether that is the cue ball or any other ball. This is what makes calling a frozen ball so vital, it can make an easy 'tap' safety shot into a much more difficult one.
If an object ball is frozen to the rail, then playing the cue ball into the frozen object ball is a legal shot, if a) the object ball is a legal target, b) the cue ball touches the rail (any rail) after contacting the frozen object ball. See rules 4.3, 4.7 and 6.4.
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11 Jahre 10 Monate her - 11 Jahre 10 Monate her #430
von Matt West
Matt West antwortete auf Re:Some rules I think need some clarification/altering
Thanks for your reply Bernard, I should have read the rules more thoroughly before posting, although this way I saved time 
Regarding 1) I believe quite a few players/teams think otherwise, I've heard gossip of the 'released jigger foul' being called on players several times, and it was called on me once.
Regarding 2) I'd forgotten that breaks will be alternating now, with only 3 coin tosses. That probably eliminates the liklihood of someone insisting that a rerack isn't allowed after the coin toss.
Regarding 3) Thanks for the clarification with this rule and when the 5 minutes begins. I wonder if there is a different situation with the playoffs? We had an issue with this in one of our playoff matches this season.
Regarding 4) Wow, I've been playing the frozen ball rule incorrectly for years. I had to check to see if the 9ball rule is different, but it's the same.
Although, I prefer the way I was playing it, where the cue ball or object ball has to contact a different rail, or any other ball has to contact any rail. That made the safety shot very difficult.
Regards,Matt
Regarding 1) I believe quite a few players/teams think otherwise, I've heard gossip of the 'released jigger foul' being called on players several times, and it was called on me once.
Regarding 2) I'd forgotten that breaks will be alternating now, with only 3 coin tosses. That probably eliminates the liklihood of someone insisting that a rerack isn't allowed after the coin toss.
Regarding 3) Thanks for the clarification with this rule and when the 5 minutes begins. I wonder if there is a different situation with the playoffs? We had an issue with this in one of our playoff matches this season.
Regarding 4) Wow, I've been playing the frozen ball rule incorrectly for years. I had to check to see if the 9ball rule is different, but it's the same.
Although, I prefer the way I was playing it, where the cue ball or object ball has to contact a different rail, or any other ball has to contact any rail. That made the safety shot very difficult.
Regards,Matt
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11 Jahre 9 Monate her #434
von Bernard Condrau
Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from making bad decisions. [Samuel Langhorne Clemens]
The explanations I posted are valid for BCA and WPA rules, and therefore valid for the Itaewon Pool League, as our rules are consistent with BCA and WPA. Brian posted some other rules which I'm not familiar with.
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